The AirAsia Airbus A320 in question (PK-AXC) seen here in 2010. On December 28, 2014 this plane would be used on AirAsia Flight QZ8501 that is currently missing - Photo: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/brunogeiger/15907589585" target="_blank">Bruno Geiger | Flickr CC</a>

The AirAsia Airbus A320 in question (PK-AXC) seen here in 2010. On December 28, 2014, this plane would be used on AirAsia Flight QZ8501 that has now been confirmed crashed – Photo: Bruno Geiger | Flickr CC

On December 28th, at 6:12 am local time, Indonesia AirAsia flight QZ8501, traveling from Surabaya, Indonesia to Singapore, went missing over the Java Sea. On Tuesday the 30th, wreckage of the plane was discovered in the general area where the last known location was, confirming that QZ8501 had crashed.

The aircraft involved was an Airbus A320-216 registered PK-AXC. Contact was lost with the flight as it was climbing to a higher altitude to avoid weather, which is a standard operating procedure.

There were 155 passengers and seven crew. The cause of crash will likely not be known for quite some time still.

This story will be updated as new information is received. Last updated 12/30/2014 6:40am PST. 

Route map of QZ8501 showing it disappearing somewhere over the Java Sea via Jason Rabinowitz on FlightRadar24

Route map of QZ8501 showing it disappearing somewhere over the Java Sea – via Jason Rabinowitz on FlightRadar24

AirAsia Flight QZ8501 Updates

12/30 7:20am PST: The worst has been confirmed, flight AirAsia flight QZ8501 crashed into the Java Sea and officials have found wreckage and the remains of passengers on board. They discovered the wreckage about 100nm southwest of Pangkalan Bun in Borneo. Rescuers will continue to search for bodies, wreckage, and of course the flight data recorder (aka black boxes). The black boxes and parts of the fuselage have technologies so rescuers can more easily discover them.

According to aviation journalist Jason Rabinowitz, the fuselage has Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs), which are used to find debris above water and Underwater Locator Beacons (ULBs), which are located with the boxes, are used when they are underwater. “Every commercial aircraft has multiple location technologies on board,” Rabinowitz explained to AirlineReporter. “ELTs are located in several spots on the aircraft. These transmitters emit a signal that can be received by other aircraft, boats, or even satellites. However, they do not work once submerged in water.”

“Attached to each black box is an ULB. These beacons are activated once in water and emit a ping over a very specific radio frequency. The ULB has a very short range, and must be picked up by boats passing over the area. The battery typically lasts for around 30 days.”

AirAsia has released another statement:

SURABAYA, 30TH DECEMBER 2014 – AirAsia Indonesia regrets to inform that The National Search and Rescue Agency Republic of Indonesia (BASARNAS) today confirmed that the debris found earlier today is indeed from QZ8501, the flight that had lost contact with air traffic control on the morning of 28th. 

The debris of the aircraft was found in the Karimata Strait around 110 nautical miles south west from Pangkalan Bun. The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. There were 155 passengers on board, with 137 adults, 17 children and 1 infant. Also on board were 2 pilots, 4 cabin crews and one engineer.

At the present time, search and rescue operations are still in progress and further investigation of the debris found at the location is still underway. AirAsia Indonesia employees have been sent to the site and will be fully cooperating with BASARNAS, National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC), and relevant authorities on the investigation.

Sunu Widyatmoko, Chief Executive Officer of AirAsia Indonesia said: “We are sorry to be here today under these tragic circumstances. We would like to extend our sincere sympathies to the family and friends of those on board QZ8501. Our sympathies also go out to the families of our dear colleagues.”

Tony Fernandes, Group Chief Executive Officer of AirAsia added: “I am absolutely devastated. This is a very difficult moment for all of us at AirAsia as we await further developments of the search and rescue operations but our first priority now is the wellbeing of the family members of those onboard QZ8501.”

AirAsia has posted this image and hashtag on their FaceBook account

AirAsia has posted this image and hashtag on their Facebook account

12/29 5:40pm PST: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Sampson is underway to the search area to assist with the search operation. France and China have also pledged support.

12/29 10:41am PST: Indonesia has asked the United States to join the search effort.

12/28 8:45pm PST: AirAsia has released a new statement, but without too much additional information:

SURABAYA, 29TH DECEMBER 2014 – AirAsia Indonesia has received confirmation from The National Search and Rescue Agency Republic of Indonesia (BASARNAS) that an international search and rescue mission from Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia has been mobilized in the search of flight QZ8501. The mission in Surabaya has resumed today at 06.00 AM LT (GMT+7).

AirAsia Indonesia continue to support these efforts and has been actively cooperating with the search and rescue authorities.

AirAsia Indonesia’s primary focus remains on the families and Sunu Widyatmoko, Chief Executive Officer of AirAsia Indonesia is currently stationed at the family centre in Surabaya. We have been keeping the families updated on the search and rescue efforts as well as provide emotional support. Another group of AirAsia officials are providing the same to the families based in Singapore.

An emergency call centre has been established and available for families seeking information. The number is+622129270811 or 031-8690855 or 031-2986790(Surabaya).

We will release further information as soon as it becomes available and our thoughts and prayers are with those on board QZ8501.

12/28 5:55pm PST: Even though it is now light at the suspected crash zone, there has been no announcement about finding any debris from Flight QZ8501.

12/28, 9:10am PST: AirAsia released a new statement:

Earlier in Surabaya, the management of AirAsia along with the Governor of East Java, National Search and Rescue Agency of Republic of Indonesia (BASARNAS), Airport Authority of Indonesia, Airport Operator (Angkasa Pura I) met with the members of the families to update them on the latest developments and reconfirmed their commitment to providing assistance in every possible way.

Sunu Widyatmoko, CEO of AirAsia Indonesia said, “We are deeply shocked and saddened by this incident. We are cooperating with the relevant authorities to the fullest extent to determine the cause of this incident. In the meantime, our main priority is keeping the families of our passengers and colleagues informed on the latest developments.”

“We will do everything possible to support them as the investigation continues and have already mobilized a support team to help take care of their immediate needs, including accommodation and travel arrangements. A briefing center has also been set up in Surabaya for the families.”

For the families in Singapore, there is also an emergency briefing room at Changi International Airport Terminal Two, where AirAsia Indonesia will be providing regular updates.

We have also established an Emergency Call Centre that is available for those seeking information about relatives or friends who may have been on board the flight. The number is +622129270811.

At this time, search and rescue operations are being conducted, under the guidance of National Search and Rescue Agency Republic of Indonesia (BASARNAS). AirAsia Indonesia is cooperating fully and assisting the investigation in every possible way.

The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. There were 155 passengers on board, with 137 adults, 17 children and 1 infant. Also on board were 2 pilots and 4 cabin crew and one engineer on board.

The captain in command had a total of 20,537 flying hours of which, 6,100 flying hours were with AirAsia Indonesia on the Airbus A320. The first office officer had a total of 2,275 flying hours with AirAsia Indonesia.

We will release further information as soon as it becomes available and our thoughts and prayers are with those on board QZ8501.
Note to Editors: We ask that members of the news media do not call the AirAsia Emergency Call Centre, as this line is reserved for family members seeking information about those who may have been on board. For media enquiries please call +622129270831.

The AirAsia Airbus A320-216 seen in Singapore in 2011 was flight QZ8501 on December 28, 2014 - Photo: Aero Icurus | WikiCommons

The AirAsia Airbus A320-216 seen in Singapore in 2011 was flight QZ8501 on December 28, 2014 – Photo: Aero Icurus | WikiCommons

9:29pm PST: AirAsia released a new statement:

AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 07:24 (Surabaya LT) this morning. The flight took off from Juanda International Airport in Surabaya at 0535hours.

The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. There were two pilots, four flight attendants and one engineer on board.

The captain in command had a total of 6,100 flying hours and the first officer a total of 2,275 flying hours 

There were 155 passengers on board, with 138 adults, 16 children and 1 infant. Also on board were 2 pilots and 5 cabin crew.

Nationalities of passengers and crew onboard are as below:
1 Singapore
1 Malaysia
3 South Korean
157 Indonesia

At this time, search and rescue operations are being conducted under the guidance of The Indonesia of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). AirAsia Indonesia is cooperating fully and assisting the investigation in every possible way.

The aircraft was on the submitted flight plan route and was requesting deviation due to enroute weather before communication with the aircraft was lost while it was still under the control of the Indonesian Air Traffic Control (ATC).

The aircraft had undergone its last scheduled maintenance on 16 November 2014.

9:15pm PST: Via the Indonesia Air Transportation direction, they stated that the pilot of QZ8501 requested a “left track” to avoid clouds and also wanted to climb to 38,000 feet. There was bad weather in the area at the time, but 100s of airlines fly daily through bad weather and it might not be related.

8:22pm PST: Statement from the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS):

28 December 2014, 11:30am Local Time:- An Indonesia AirAsia aircraft, QZ8501, scheduled to arrive at 0830 hours local time from Surabaya, lost contact with Jakarta air traffic control at 0724 hours local time today. Singapore air traffic control was informed of this loss of contact at 0754 hours by Jakarta air traffic control. The aircraft was in the Indonesian Flight Information Region (FIR) when contact was lost, more than 200 nm southeast of the Singapore-Jakarta FIR boundary.

Search and rescue operations have been activated by the Indonesian authorities from the Pangkal Pinang Search and Rescue office.

The Singapore Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC), managed by the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) and supported by various agencies, including the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) and the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN), has also been activated and has offered help to the Indonesian authorities. Two C130s are already on stand-by for this purpose. We remain ready to provide any assistance to support the search and rescue effort.

The CAAS and Changi Airport Group (CAG) Crisis Management Centres have already been activated. We are working with the airline’s crisis management team.

A waiting area, and all necessary facilities and support have been set up for relatives and friends of the affected passengers at Changi Airport Terminal 2 (Level 3).

Further updates will be provided once more information is available.

Screen shot taking of Air Asia's Twitter account. No cover photo and their uses icon is now gray (was red)

Screen shot taking of Air Asia’s Twitter account. No cover photo and their icon is now gray (was red) – noticed via @winglets747

8:05pm PST: Oddly AirAsia has updated their Twitter account to have no cover photo and their user icon is now black and white.

7:50pm PST: AirAsia has released the following statement via their Facebook:

AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 07:24hrs this morning.

At the present time we unfortunately have no further information regarding the status of the passengers and crew members on board, but we will keep all parties informed as more information becomes available.

The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. 

At this time, search and rescue operations are in progress and AirAsia is cooperating fully and assisting the rescue service.

AirAsia has established an Emergency Call Centre that is available for family or friends of those who may have been on board the aircraft. The number is: +622129850801.

7:42pm PST: According to the Straits Times 162 people are on board the aircraft.

7:38pm PST: Sources reporting now that the aircraft may also have requested a descent due to turbulence.

7:34pm PST: Hadi Mustofa of the Indonesian Transport Ministry stated that flight QZ8501 lost contact with Jakarta at 6:17am local (23:17GMT). The aircraft was reported to have requested an “unusual” route.

This story was written by one or more of our AirlineReporter staff members. Email us: staff@airlinereporter.com

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121 Comments

My condolences to the families. Hopefully when this Airbus is found, it’ll lead to finding MH370.

You are being a bit premature offering condolences. It is till possible it could have ditched in the sea and there are survivors. Let’s hope so.

Even if it ditched and there are survivors it is highly likely there will be casualties so condolences are probably appropriate. I seriously doubt it was a controlled ditching given that no-one seems to have received any sort of distress signal.

Steve – wind your neck in, your are coming over as a complete idiot.

Nicolas Hu

What a horrible year for Malaysian airlines. May God have mercy on the souls of the crew and passengers.

Good grief, not again.

Nalliah Thayabharan

Unusual, looking on the flight data online, PK-AXC broke International Air Safety regulations and was above 250knt under 10,000ft over major populated area 06.38am Airspeed – 297knt Altitude – 6,675ft This data could be wrong though, it looks like the Captain was also well above 250knts at lower altitudes than this. Perhaps he was cleared by ATC to open it up early in the climb.

I believe the data displayed is the groundspeed, not the indicated airspeed. If it was really above 250kts, I believe they already had the clearance to do it.

Nat’s right. Radar reads groundspeed (speed over the ground – they must have had a tailwind)

David Bruce

yes, they had tailwind this morning; I was checking satellite weather at 7am East Australian time. Abel Danger was expecting Airbus to be next to “go missing”…

Jeremiah Roberson

This is outrageous! I can be tracked virtually anywhere on this planet by my cell phone. How can we lose a plane?

Bullshit. You live in a western country with cell phone towers everywhere. You don’t live out in the ocean where cell phone towers don’t exist you moron

They use normally GPS to locate phones and stolen cars, and there is GPS coverage in the Ocean.

Something knowing where IT is is easy by GPS, its letting base/somewhere else know where IT is that is the hard bit, requiring satellite comms and coverage.

osun thyruss

ever heard of satellites?

It would have been even funnier if Josh ended with “You don’t live out in the ocean where cell phone towers don’t exist you MORAN!”

Have some respect for those missing passengers, so spare me your attitude!

Nalliah Thayabharan

The A320 – 216 (MSN 3648) used on Flight QZ8501 is just over 6 years old with CFM engines

Nalliah Thayabharan

The plane’s last known location was near Belitung Island in the Java Sea. The plane had taken an “unusual route,” It’s monsoon season in the region and there were heavy thunderstorms in the area.

Passengers:
1 Malaysian; 1 British; 1 Singaporean; 3 Koreans; 148 Indonesians

138 Adults; 16 Children & 1 infant

Captain: Iriyanto
FO: Remi Emmanuel Plesel
SFA: Wanti Setiawati
FAs: Khairunisa Haidar Fauzi Oscar Desano; Wismoyo Ari Prambudi;
ENG: Saiful Rakhmad.

This is odd:

Here is a video of the same A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC posted May 21, 2014 by Renato L Santos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzT2BepP0U

Thats freaking hoolarieus lmfao , good one two thumbs up

Nalliah Thayabharan

The Singapore Air Force has sent two C-130 aircraft to the last reported site, near Belitung Island in the Java Sea, which was reportedly hit with substantial thunderstorms this morning. The plane’s last reported altitude was 32,000 feet near Belitung Island in the Java Sea just more than 200 nautical miles south east from Singaporean airspace. Pilot on board flight QZ8501 requested to increase altitude before contact was lost. The weather on route was “nasty”, but would not be enough to render major structural failure. A320 is a really solid aircraft in turbulence. The A320 was delivered to the Indonesian arm of AirAsia on October 16, 2008, from Airbus’ manufacturing hub in Toulouse, France.

Peter MacIntyre

The engine type has a history of cutting out in heavy rain / hail. It’s a bit eary to jump to conclusions but it sounds like the weather could have been a factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56

Nalliah Thayabharan

The first officer is French pilot Remi Emmanuel Plesel.The FAA website lists Remi Emmanuel Plesel as a certified private pilot of single engine aircraft.

LMichaels

It also says that certificate was issued 10 years ago. I’m sure he was typed in this aircraft. As an aside, the FAA pilot registry still shows my father in the database and he died years ago. I wouldn’t worry too much about what the FAA website lists.

Nalliah Thayabharan

The missing aircraft had its last scheduled maintenance on November 16, 2014. The missing plane had requested deviation due to weather before communication was lost. The plane has gone missing between Belitung Island and Kalimantan in Indonesia. Airplane wreckage has reportedly been found east of Belitung Island in Indonesia.

Nalliah Thayabharan

Malaysian low-cost airline AirAsia is believed to be one of the safest air carriers in the world. Until today there have been only two incidents with its aircraft. In both cases they overran runways. One took place in November 7, 2004, at Malaysia’s Kota Kinabalu airport (Flight 104, Boeing 737). Another incident with Flight 5218 (Airbus A320-200) occurred in Malaysia’s Kuching on January 10, 2011.

Nalliah Thayabharan

The pilot contacted Jakarta air traffic control 6:12 a.m. reporting clouds and asking to turn left and to go higher from 9,700 meters (32,000 feet) to 10,303 meters (34,000 feet) to hinder clouds.There was no distress signal from Flight QZ8501. The contact was lost about 42 minutes after the single-aisle jetliner took off from Indonesia’s Surabaya airport – about an hour before it was scheduled to land in Singapore. The captain Iriyanto had a total of 6,100 flying hours and the first officer Remi Emmanuel Plesea had a total of 2,275 flying hours. The tops of thunder storms can reach over 30,000 feet and pilots try to avoid them. Rare for a jet like that to be brought down by turbulence but any thing is possible. Also was looking on Flight radar 24 and most planes in that area are diverting around this severe weather

Steve Kasian

“Rare for a jet like that to be brought down by turbulence but any thing is possible.”
Wait a minute… you just stated in another comment that, “The weather on route was ‘nasty’, but would not be enough to render major structural failure.” Make up your mind, Mr. Knowitall… you can’t have it both ways. You’re a real friggin Armchair Expert over there, aren’t you? Go play with your FS2004 some more and quit acting like you know what you’re talking about.

Steve Kasian, You are an asshole.

Steve Kasian

@zzzhuh2: Thank you… I appreciate the compliment very much.

Is it really necessary to be rude? Would you say such things if you were face-to-face? I think not.

I agree with zzzhuh2, Steve Kasian is an idiot. If you don’t have anything productive to add to the comment thread
then it’s best you keep quiet rather than call people names.

Steve shut up. All you keep doing is making negative posts telling people off.

Rick Ellis

thank you so much Nalliah for the detailed information. I have been on AirAsia countless times, last time was yesterday. AirAsia is an excellent airline in all respects. In the air, on the ground, the service, in-flight, food, communication, everything excellent. The weather in the region this time of year is very weird, rain where it should be dry season and lots of storms.

Hey Rick. There are only 2 seasons in this area (SE Asia). Wet and Dry Seasons. It is usually wet from June to November. December to May is the dry season. From December to February, it is usuallly cool. Not too dry, no rains.

This is horrible ……

1-It might be encouraging to know that the Java Sea is relatively shallow, often less than 200 feet deep.
2-Why no news about the automatic deploying water beacons? Also, no mention of whether transponder or satellite computer system was working after loss of contact.
3-Since it seems our cellphones can be tracked everywhere, when are we going to demand continuous Satellite based ID systems safely within the aircrafts’ infrastructure? It is in credible that searchers would not be able to know precisely where the plane was. Lessons should have been learned by the missing Malaysian airliner.

Is there really a need to have a hissy fit about a news agency reporting there were no Australians on-board? I think not. By the way, thanks for finally learning how to spell AirAsia.

Flyingjack

Ever since I flew Air Asia I’ve been sceptical about their maintenance standards. I flew with them twice (from Bangkok to Chaing Mai over and back in 2009) on board one of their Boeing 737 (300 series). The overall condition of the plane (inside as well as outside) was very neglected. I remember that one the trolleys hadn’t been secured properly and came racing through the cabin from the rear galley as we landed. Here’s a picture I took of the right wing with some missing rivets. A few of these missing rivets may not a treat for the plane to fly but it just doesn’t give passengers a good impression and tends to show that the airline’s priority seemed to be orientated towards profit rather than security.
Here are the photos’ of the right wing and it’s missing rivets:

http://i57.tinypic.com/osev0y.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/4rahlg.jpg

Adrian Jenkins

For readers not familiar with the AirAsia group of companies in South East Asia, it should be noted that this flight is on Indonesia AirAsia, as correctly noted by the writer of this article. They use the IATA Code – QZ. Indonesia AirAsia has a majority of Indonesian shareholders.

Other airlines in the AirAsia family – AirAsia Berhad (IATA – AK); AirAsia X (IATA – D7); Thai AirAsia (IATA – FD); AirAsia Zest (IATA – Z2); Philippines AirAsia (IATA – PQ) & AirAsia India (IATA – I5) are related to Indonesia AirAsia but are not directly affected.

Adrian,

Do I know you? Your name is very familiar to me. I am retired NW/DL now living and flying in China. Let me know!

Pete S.

Adrian Jenkins

No, I don’t believe that I know you. It’s quite possible there is someone with the same name as me. I live in New Zealand, have never flown on NW, and only flown on DL once from ATL-TPA in 1983.

Bob Croon

Encouraging water is shallow.Black boxes are not really effective in water deeper than approx 1.20 miles deep. The water near the missing Malaysia flight often was 3 to 4 miles deep. This based on an article about the Airbus that just went down. Forget the name of who posted it was to early to offer condolences that there could be survivors what does that have anything to do with those who may have perished.The plane was near 34.000ft.He was about 30.000ft when asking to climb. I offer condolences as well.

Lcattleya

While it has been for over 7 hours after the missing of the flight QZ8501 and some speculations have been raised, I would still hope that all passengers and crews are safe and soon found. I cant imagine all passengers’ expectation when they were on board : good time during the New Year. I hate to see media reporters of many TVs asked so challenging (insensitive) questions to families of the passengers and crews of the missing plane.
May God saves all of the QZ801’s passengers and crews.

My thoughts go out to all families….
Question….why did we not put reverse tracking systems in all flights after the loss of previous flights this year? At this day and age with all our technology this should be mandatory and easily accomplished?

Flight data information should constantly be recorded via satellite to data bank at the same time it is being recorded to black box on aircrafts…..why is this not already in place??? This is common sense technology!

Steve Kasian

You should know by know that the term “common sense” is a misnomer, as any kind of good sense is all too uncommon in the world today.

David Bruce

I have flown through the Inter Tropic Convergence Zone (ITCZ) in that area. Updrafts and downdrafts of 5,000 feet/minute can take control of large (100 tonne) aircraft. Weather satellite images this morning showed extremely turbulent conditions (5am local time). The storms in the ITCZ can go up to 50,000 ft and extend for 500-600 miles. One of the challenges of flying across the Equator.

David Bruce

There is no requirement for Air Asia to comply with IATA, nor ICAO standards. It does not operate in western countries… if the A320 was caught in updraft, unless they were flying at Turbulence Speed, the autopilot would disengage and the pilots would have to respond quickly to avoid a stall. The ITCZ can be fearsome in patches.

Steve Kasian

There is no IATA or ICAO requirement as described by Eric, above, so adhesion requirements of Air Asia in that regard are irrelevant. Eric was merely stating that the aforementioned *SHOULD* be a requirement. And I tend to agree.

Very sad day,just can’t believe that with today’s technology of satellites and sending air craft into space that we can not adopt a 100% full tracking system?Air Malaysia comes to mined.I know this doesn’t happen often ,but aeroplane manufacturers need to take a hard look at the design of their air craft.Every time this happens I am extremely scared to fly.May god bless all the people on this flight.Someone should publish a book on all air disasters with the names of people who perished in the accidents and the proceeds should go to the families.

AirAsia Exclusive Information: Flight QZ8501 lost contact with the Indonesian Air Traffic Control at the waters of Babylon with GPS cordinates of 03 22 46 S 108 50 07 E.

Kevin Barbee

When will the airlines improve their tracking capabilities?

Only when they are forced to do so by various governments. It’s been 9 months since MH370 went missing, and nothing has been done to require improved tracking.

Now, governments must spend taxpayer money to locate a commercial jet (again) because the airlines are too cheap to put in reliable tracking equipment.

It is past time to mandate continuous tracking of all commercial airlines, and further to prevent either engine failure or the crew from disabling said tracking.

Furthermore, far too many airline crashes can be directly linked to the pilot having incomplete information about the condition of the aircraft.

Inexpensive solutions such as night vision cameras showing strategically vital locations would provide quick information to the crew and thus save lives in an emergency.

Something as simple as a bottle of colored water could act as a gravity level during spatial disorientation.

Legislation requiring Boeing and Airbus to bear the expenses for search and rescue if their product is eventually found to be at fault would give their lobbyists something to chew on.

You Guys are Heartless

Hey guys, stop bragging about how good you guys think you are at covering a crash and who has picked your coverage up. People died I this crash. You guys are heartless.

Saddened by this

Saddened by two things. The disappearance of yet another aircraft, and the complete lack of respect of so many commentators. So many puerile and offensive comments. It’s pathetic! Sincerely Hope this aircraft is found quickly. My thoughts are with all those involved.

My deepest condolences

My deepest condolences go out to the passeengers and flight crew on QZ8501 ……

Raymond Chan

Prayers goes to all on board and affected family members.

A more serious concern is hypothermia, a deadly condition that can occur in water as warm as 60 degrees Fahrenheit (16 degrees Celsius). Surface water temperatures in the Gulf of Thailand — the region where the Malaysian Airlines aircraft is likely to have crashed — are about 80 degrees F (27 C), which will increase the chances of survival for any people floating in it.
But it might take days to find the Malaysian Airlines airplane or any survivors. In 2009, after an Air France flight crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, it took five days to locate the wreckage of the plane, according to the Los Angeles Times, and two years to retrieve the black boxes. All 228 passengers and crew from that flight died.

Could it be possible that b4 he could effectively climb above the severe weather cell still developing,run into a series of lighting strikes, temporarily disabling or re-seting the FBW computer to a null condition status. In the mean time the aircraft is without full & effective control, putting the aircraft in a situation where it could vertically accelerate out of control and structurally breaking apaŕt?

Jan Likes

terrorists?

We are in global warming era. The weather were always changes too fast. At the same time, some authorities,commonly too late upload the real weather to online or any other accessed weather satellite. We need special rules subjecting safety flight concerning suck bad weather situation to avoid or prevent all of thoose potentials and fatally damage.

well every one knows the truth, it has been missing since more than 12 hours, the chances of the aircraft and people on board being safe is thin. But still pray GOD, let a miracle happen, let them come back safe, let us hope they all safe some where, landed safely, not able communicate to base. OH GOD PLEASE DO A MIRACLE THIS ONE TIME………

Video Published on Nov 15, 2012 of:

Indonesia AirAsia A320-216 [Reg:PK-AXC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4M27cd_PyM

Emb from Indonesia

It was rainy season in here, thunderstorm and heavy rain was something usual here, combined with our mountainous terrain. Makes searching and rescue job little bit difficult. Nature act was unpredictable here. So do things that happened in the qz8501. It could be anything. Surabaya – Singapore flight route was a common everyday flight schedule route, with thousand plane has passed this route. So do AirAsia has ben known to flight on this area many times before without any trouble. So we don’t hope any conclusion or speculation grown up before real evidence bout this ship was found. Please respect the family of flight members. Lets just pray the best for the passenger and crew.

Question – why is all the black box recorder information not sent to satalite constantly so we can retrieve all ongoing information from more than just the fisical black box. We need to access all information immediately so we can understand what was happening on the plane prior to it going missing. We already know that these black boxes can get damaged, go missing, are are sometimes impossible to retrieve. When will we change how we access the box recorder information. Keeping it only in a box on these flights is just old school tecfnowladgy….let’s make it a priority to change the way we track flights and gather information….lets get it up to date with our technology capabilities.

My thoughts and prayers are with the passengers and crew aboard the missing plane and I hope it ends with them being found. The following links may interest everyone they relate to Globalstar who is with other companies and government setting up a global positioning system to track aircraft second to second any place in the world.

http://www.globalstar.com/en/index.php?cid=7010&pressId=664

http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2014/09/16/666321/10098697/en/Photo-Release-Globalstar-Completes-7-000-Mile-Demonstration-of-Dual-Link-Space-Based-ADS-B.html

There is a difference between cell phones and sat phones, cell phones may work on board with the repeater on board if working, sat phones generally don’t work within a vehicle including aircraft.

My thoughts go out to all those who’s family members were onboard this flight, I hope for good news, but realise that it is now unlikely.

I agree with others on here that its about time that the CAA, FAA & other governing bodies do something about how aircraft are tracked, in the modern world where there is such wide use of satelites & comunications networks used for little more than simply staying in touch with each other, either by phone calls or internet. Yet there are no systems in place to keep track of aircraft in case of disaster!
strange isn’t it how a comodity such as a mobile phone is considered by most of the world as a priority over the safety of 100+ people on an aircraft!

guys, this is really sad. My friends is in the aircraft with her family. Seriously guys, they are planning for holiday, thinking of spending their new year in Singapore, thinking how great 2015 will be for them, but sadly, they might ended up dead or something. I know we can’t do anything, but don’t argue with such thing. If it’s their time, Let them rest in peace. Just hope that the rescue team do the best and God gives miracle to us. This is another lesson for the plane manufacturers, Boeing and Airbus, to improve their safety on board, to develop a technology to track the aircraft when they’re missing like this. Hope that they can make it home and enjoy life as we do now. =)

My thoughts are with you and your friends. Some of the comments on this unfortunate incident are beyond contempt.

Weirdly Gruesome

“The aircraft was between the Indonesian port of Tanjung Pandan and the town of Pontianak.”

Pontianak is (also) the much-dreaded, incubus-type entity in the Malaysian folkloric tradition.

Mere coincidence? You decide. Conduct an image search for Pontianak.

I thought I saw that plane with the same livery fly over England at 1pm while I was having lunch outside on my balcony.
I was eating lunch on the balcony with my friend and we were plane spotting. He saw 2 british airway planes and I was 1 British Airway plane. And then I saw a plane which was turning around. It had a red middle but I got my binoculars and say what it was posted on the side: AirAsia.com. I ran inside and told all my frends on Facebook and now they’re trying to tell as many people as they can

Dave, Our hearts go out to you guys and those aboard that flight, I believe we are all connected and I hope very much they will find them all alive.

The technology is here http://www.ads-b.com/news.htm now it has to be installed and utilized.

BREAKING NEWS: Missing AirAsia Aircraft’s Co-Pilot is Nigerian: In the early hours of today, AirAsia, an Indonesian airline announced the missing of their Singapore bound aircraft-Flight QZ8501. Africa Thisday followed the developing events and launched an inquiry into the personality of one Mr. Remi Emmanuel who was named as the flight’s First Officer. The mainstream media had reported that Co-Pilot Remi was from France but here in Africa Thisday, we suspected that the name ‘Remi’ originates from Yoruba, a tribe in western Nigeria and thus we started our investigation.

First, we were able to obtain the biodata of Mr. Remi Emmanuel. We established contacts with some people who knew him at his Paris flat and a neighbour who did not want his name mentioned said “Mr. Remi is a decent Nigerian-French pilot. He was so proud of his African roots. Wherever he is right now, I know his soul is embittered by the media’s misrepresentation of his identity and origin. He holds a French passport but his blood is African.” He said amidst sobs. See more on this: Google: “Africa Thisday Remi Emmanuel”

Why do you mention that the co-pilot is Nigerian…..he is from Martinique!so what.He was a very good pilote.Black or white who cares???

Is waqay may America ki sazish maloom hoti hai
…I believe that America is surely involved this incident.

Sonia, Sadly we live in a world of prejudice where some people cannot understand we are all the same no matter our country of origin, skin color, language or religion or sex.

I find it sad that during a tragedy such as this some people cannot just come together, pray for those involved to be ok. That’s my prayer however unless the plane changed course and landed elsewhere the hope is pretty slim. Because radar was lost at that early stage I suspect something happened very quickly, the result of this would not be good.

I do not agree that the aircraft manufacturer have had an excellent safety record. Look at the 320 lost on route to Paris from S.America. Frightinglly similar, the aircraft climbed prior to accident, aircraft had been slowed down for turbulent air penetration at -15 you can get super cool water, if a probe comes in contact, instant ice? Result a computer system that can and will automatically shut down. (Flight director must be shut down instantly) Understand that instruments from this manufacturer can be difficult to read in an emergency situation with multiple failures in progress and easy to put aircraft into deep stall, due to heavy / confusing work load. Understand that Air France removed all the pitot tubes from 320. This is a prime first line of information that is required to make all the computers work correctly. I truely hope this not the case, but how three air France pilots could not pickup signs of deep stall, and not save the air craft especially from extreme altitude, seems a real misery.

Sorry should read 330 not 320 – auto correct has a mind of its own. P.S: I am a pilot and was born in St Lucia, next to Matinique, this is not a place and time for a racial discussion. Xxxx

owain harrison

Some Asian airlines still follow PTF – Pay to Fly where inexperienced pilots (often foreign) pay the airline between $10,000 and $50,000 to fly as second officer. It would be nice to be told that the second officer here wasn’t a PTF man.

Rodney Rogers

Black Market opperation raising funds for an unknown terrorist organization. We’ve seen this before . . .

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

When the flight Director is shut down, the flying pilots has to totally fly the aircraft by hand in elevation and azimuth + deal with other warnings, the Acars for the Air France reported 25 such warnings going off in the cockpit. Today I was flying instruments at Coventry for an hour. Practising an SRA, and partial pannel, all under the hood. Plus Timed and procedural turns, I am current and let me tell you, it is bloody hard work, (on average I practise for 4-5 hours per month) With modern jets the pilot gets on average two minutes of flying hands on per flight, other wise the FMC / FD is doing all the work. Say 5 flights per week = 10 minutes per week, spread between 2,3 pilots. Say the pitot tubes did become iced, could a pilot realistically be expected to fly a jet by hand, in storm clouds, I would say not a chance in Hell, especially P2 pilot. (His only chance would be not to alter the aircrafts attitude in any way, and wait for the ice to melt, (if he new what the problem was in the first place) The well seasoned, investigator of the Air France crash, who incidentally investigated Lockerby, plus the fuel tank vapour explosion, which downed an aircraft of the East Coast of the USA, a while back. Recommended that pilots be given more regular hands on flying. Flight training is becoming more and more expensive, but the authorities ignor the associated problems. Understand that some senior pilots are asking for more money to act as a flight trainer for low hours P2 pilots. There is a temptation as more and more pilots are coming up for retirment now, to stick inexperienced pilots in the right hand seat. Understand that BA are offering cadet training schemes, perhaps other airlines need to follow in their footsteps.

This is the time we have to verify Inmarsat accuracy. Could you please contact relavant Heads in Inmarsat

To Be Honest, I don’t know whom to contact. That’s way, Posting here..

This is the time we have to verify Inmarsat accuracy. Could you please contact relavant Heads in Inmarsat

Video boarding and take off of:

Identical aircraft: Airbus A320-216 (PK-AXW),
Similar route (Bandung to Singapore)
in October 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhSrB3dmKds

Was it captured by aliens or was it captured by terrositlst in pakistan or afghanistan

The missing aircraft during flight 19 June 2014
Indonesia Airasia QZ508 (PK-AXC) Denpasar (Bali) – Singapore
filmed and posted by zEndocast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Bs_FpWbtU

I am really very sorry for that people whose relatives were in that plane.

News reports are out that they have located the wreckage of the plane and have recovered something like 40 bodies so far.

Looks very much like weather caused the crash.

henry Baillie-Hamilton

Bad weather, (very very very) really brings down an aicraft at that altitude, if no other mitigating circumstances, keep an open mind, the world is in heart felt morning with the family and prayers for the family are in the minds of the entire world tonight.

Maybe the french FO is to blame like Benin on AF447??

Flight QR 702(QTR702) has declared an
emergency and in to Manchester International Airport in UK

Flight QR 702(QTR702) has declared an
emergency and landed to Manchester International Airport in UK

Abdul Atique

Very Sad incident.

That’s what we’ve all been waiting for! Great pogtsni!

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

Sounds like the aircraft climbed to fast, with to high a nose up attitude, eventually stalled, aircraft violently pitched down, a wing would tend to drop, then went in to a spiral dive, hitting the water out of control, and broke into two parts, ending up under water upside down. Normal recovery action would be increase power, with partial nose down position, pickup the droped wing, when airflow over the wings had returned to normal, and when speed was correct, fly straight and level, with in the normal envelope. Sweet
Jesus (Buda) must have been terrifying beyond belief for all on board the aircraft. The passengers that have been found would have been in seats were the hull of the aircraft, broke. That’s why the found recage of the flaps were so badly bent, the aircraft started to break up because the aerodynamic forces were so great, on the way down, no passenger aircraft could be designed to withstand that type of force.

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

The question on the table is why did the flying captain not know he was entering the stall speed, a thought crossed my mind, perhaps the pitot tube which monitors the aerodynamic speed (aircraft speed through the air) and static pressure (altitude) were iced up and caused the flight computers to give a large number of warnings as they could not correctly report the aircraft speed or altitude. Effectively the pilot would be flying blind. To get that rate of climb he would have to be flying control wheel stealing, otherwise the auto pilot would not let the aircraft climb in that attitude, configuration, and speed assuring only one out come a stall, this means that the aircraft came to a stand still in mid air and dropped out of the sky.

M.Schwan

All I can say really is only my opinion but I think it’s a dead give away that the Malaysian plane that is missing still didn’t crash in any body of water. Three days with this one floating plane parts and bodies. That’s common sense don’t ya think

On to Henry Baillie Hamilton
Hello For Info if you in a Stall-Speed, you will fall in a Spin. To stop a Spin, you need only the Rudder. Never use the Elevator first ! If the Spin has stpped, use the Elevator slowly ( idle Power still Aircraft is in Level Flight. Then you set Power again. And never forget, if you have no Speed indication, in a Airbus you still have a AOA ( Angle-of Attack Indicator ) and it is possible to fly the Aircraft only with the Horizont and the Power levers.

To do this, you need training in a Simulator or you do a aerobatic course.
I have a ATPL , and we had to do this Course with a Licence Check !

Most of the Malaysian airline in 2014 has crashed, such a bad year.😓a Malaysian airline got shot down then MH370 then now. Too all familys and freiends we will surely be with you.

Henry Baillie-hamilton

To be honest I only fly PA 28 161 – I find that the reaction to the stall has now become instinctive, it always surprised how quickly you can loose height, yes I agree pick the wings up with the rudder to avoid adverse aileron effect, I was practising stalls under the hood last weekend, and only lost less than100 ft. I also recovered from a spiral dive, and loss was extremely low. But I have trained for this over over and over and over again. That early split second reaction and nose just at the correct attitude, turns things from a ball buster to a pleasure. (Would just mentioned the recovery is not over rushed, no need to bang in the control, it is a smooth action, (thank you B.A and CAA for the great training). The moment the nose nods, is the very moment that you have to be on the case, one nice and easy smooth action. A bit like a golf swing no need to belt the living day lights out of the ball, but the club needs to be were the club needs to be, all a question of timing and practise. Other wise the ball flys off in the complely wrong direction, That’s why I thing the air investigators of Air France 330 said that commercial pilots need more practise with hands on flying. Flying is an art and can too easily be treated like a computer game, and if you do it can bite you in the ass. I spoke to a commercial pilot today at Coventry
and he told me a stalled aircraft is a stalled aircraft, what ever the size, and recovery is not that dissimilar.

In this case the 320 stall was probally induced, by the updraft and sudden down draft, from CB, and may be low airspeed, personally think the pilot did recover, and landed on the water hence the reason why the ELT did not activate, However understand from reports on TV, the waves were about 9-10 feet, and the aircraft on hitting a wall of water, even walls of water at speed, would have probally broken up. But let’s wait for the report, they have found the crash site so I understand, so we will not have long to wait. (P.S wondered if he did intentionally land on the water, why ?, (No need to surely if he had recovered from a stall) or was it the case that he had also lost thrust.

Henry Baillie-hamilton

Werner, I just read your email again, I also did study for an ATPL at Oxford, but opted for GA, lucky I had a good job in the cargo business with Hellman WW at LHR. So decided to fly for fun as aposed for work. You may wish to re think what you said. The following comments are given to you in good faith. I wish you every success with finding a pilots position with your ATPL

1) when an air craft is stalled, is the air speed high or low – my flying experience tells me unquestionable low, that why the nose nods the centre of gravity is forward of the centre of pressure

2) how do you regain air flow over the wing,
A) pull up
B) push the nose down

Please do not tell me A

3) is there any thing else that would increase air over the wing to increase a low pressure under the wing to induce lift
A) increase speed by increasing power and monitor air speed
B) reduce power to idle (this answer is desperately wrong)

4) if you did not react in time and the aircraft started to fall out of the sky due to low air speed what would you get
A) terminal velocity – initially low air speed, then increasing air speed, do not wait for Aircraft to go in to a spiral and eventually reach terminal velocity and tearing off wings, initially increas airspeed with thrust do not over speed, reduce power, and fly straight and level, do not over stress air frame and pull out of dive.
B) parachute effect

Please do no tell me B

5) if you were very very slow to react and allowed the wing to drop and not correct would you get
A) still terminal velocity (increasing excessive speed) + spiral dive – so reduce power for over speed.
B) parachute effect so increase power and Take a chance on committing suicide.

Please do not tell me

Hello Henry
Thank you for the Information.
If you react quickly, when your in a stall speed ( Stallwarning and Stick Shaker ) your Procedure is correct. It will work. But if you react to late with correct Action, the Plane will fall in to a Spin. And to recover the Situation, you need a lot of Altitude.

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

Personall my worry about putting a large jet in a spin / Stall, would be the centre of gravity issue, I think it would probally be impossible if to far aft. My other strong concern if the engines were in idal how long would it take to spool-up, would you have the time, in a hand of God down draft from a towering CB of Plus 38’ooo ft, in a down draft of say plus 3000 ft per minuite plus terminal velocity. Taking in to account, time delay because the pilot had lost pitostatic pressure due to icing, Hugh work load due to alarms going off right left and centre. Plus a Imc manouver that is not frequently practised in storm cloud, with only control wheels stearing. As he would have had disconnect, due to icing of pitostatic probes. The computers no longer best friend as they have now passed back control to the flying pilot, and if he had just performed a sharp turn to avoid sever weather, shown on weather radar he could even have had the leans to boot.

Henry Baillie-hamilton

Why you need to correct the stall asap if you fell out of you chair with no down draft, still air conditions. No thrust from engines

6:59:00 am 35,000 ft
7:00:20 am 22,000 ft
7:02:19 am 1,000 ft
7:02:25 am 0 ft

Henry baillie-Hamilton

It takes 6 seconds to fall 1000 ft terminal velocity – no down force from engines or CB down draft taken into account
12 seconds to fall 2000 ft
18 seconds to fall 3000 ft allow another 900 ft for down draft – so just to land on the water you would need 3900 ft, so it is likely the pilot only recovered out of the dive / Spin at possible 3900 ft to force land on the water.

It takes 9 seconds to push the thrust lever forward
9 seconds to spool up a jet from idel to max thrust

An indication of the problem facing the pilots of Air Asia plus with a down draft of 3000 ft per min from CB you fall at 50 ft per second

PK-AKC was repainted by AirAsia sometime after March 2013, but before December 2014. The photograph used by AirlineReporter Staff on December 27th, 2014 shows the aircraft livery before it was repainted. That is why it does not match more recent photos.

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/search.php?tag=PK-AXC

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

The Lord’s Prayer
(traditional)
Would you please join me in a prayer, and a moment of reflection, who ever you God may be

Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.

Read more: http://www.lords-prayer-words.com/lord_traditional_king_james.html#ixzz3OkPcYVWj

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

The structure of an airliner is designed for air flowing over it, not for being in a spin! Centrifugal forces will be applied to the structure due to angular acceleration. Also, spins by airliner would be a lot faster then by little aircraft and more forces would be applied to the frame. If the recovery from the spin is made too fast or abrupt, it can overstress the airplane as well!.

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

Definition

Cumulonimbus is a heavy and dense cloud of considerable vertical extent in the form of a mountain or huge tower, often associated with heavy precipitation, lightning and thunder. The mature Cumulonimbus cloud has a distinctive flat, anvil shaped top.
Description

The Cumulonimbus cloud (Cb) forms when three conditions are met:
There must be a deep layer of unstable air.
The air must be warm and moist.
A trigger mechanism must cause the warm moist air to rise:
Heating of the layer of air close to the surface.
Rising ground forcing the air upwards (orographic uplift).
A front forcing the air upwards.
The way in which a Cb develops is covered in a separate article Lifecycle of the Thunderstorm
cumulonimbus

Cumulonimbus cloud in central Oklahoma. The updraft is the large cloud mass at the center of the photo. The anvil is the flat layer at the top. The downdraft is the rainy area to the right
Types of Cumulonimbus

Convection. Caused by heating of the layer of air close to the surface. This type of Cb commonly forms in the late afternoon after the peak diurnal heating. Thunderstorms of this type are a daily occurrence in many areas of the tropics. The storms are usually single Cb cells rather than clusters of cells and so can generally be avoided by flying around them.
Orographic Uplift. Caused by rising ground forcing the air upwards (Orographic Lift). These storms form when a general flow of moist unstable air passes over higher terrain, such as a ridge line or mountain range. Such storms often form in a line along the ground feature and are therefore more challenging to avoid than single cells.
Mass Ascent. Caused when a weather front forces the air upwards. As with orographic lift, the Cb cells form in a line along the front, frequently embedded within wider frontal cloud, therefore presenting a challenge to aircraft trying to navigate through the front.
Effects

Turbulence. Vertical movement within a Cb can be as much as 50kt. The interaction between strong updrafts and strong downdrafts causes wind shear and severe turbulence within the cloud. Strong surface winds, variable in direction and strength, are common at surface level in the vicinity of the Cb. These can be particularly hazardous to aircraft on take-off or landing.
In-Flight Icing. Moderate to Severe icing can be expected, especially in the higher levels of the cloud.
Electrical disturbance. Aircraft flying in the vicinity of Cb clouds may experience electrical disturbances effecting communications and navigation systems. The electrical phenomenon known as St Elmo’s Fire, while not a threat to safe flight, is an indication of nearby Cb activity. Aircraft in the vicinity of a Cb are at risk of being hit by Lightning.
Precipitation. Hail can cause significant structural damage to an aircraft. Other precipitation, such as snow, sleet, or rain, can contaminate airfield and runway surfaces creating a hazard to aircraft attempting to take-off or land.
Extreme weather. Severe downdrafts, microbursts and funnel clouds such as Tornados are also features of cumulonimbus clouds.
Defences

Flight into a Cb is highly dangerous. The only sensible defence against the hazards associated with a Cb is therefore to avoid flying into one in the first place.
Planning. Predicting an individual Cb cell is difficult but it is possible to predict the conditions which will trigger formation of a Cb. Forecasters are therefore able to advise flight crews and controllers of the likely timing, location, direction of movement, and height of cells and whether or not they may be embedded. Airport authorities can plan aircraft movements to take into account the disruption to operations caused by storms, and approach controllers can consider how they will manage en-route, departing, and arriving traffic when storms are in the vicinity. Flight crews can alter their routings to avoid forecast Cb activity or decide to carry extra contingency fuel in case they have to re-route in flight to avoid the storms or burn additional fuel because of the potential use of aircraft de/anti icing systems.
Awareness. Awareness of the conditions which lead to the formation of a Cb, recognition of a developing and mature Cb, and awareness of the signs which indicate the proximity of a Cb will help controllers and flight crews to plan operations to avoid the associated hazards.
Weather Radar. In addition to visual recognition, Weather Radar is a particularly valuable aid to avoiding Cb clouds. Airborne weather radar enables the flight crew to identify the areas of the storm cloud which hold the largest water droplets, which indicate the areas with strongest updrafts. The area of the cloud with the most severe turbulence is where the updrafts adjoin the downdrafts; therefore the pilot must avoid flying through the edge of the areas of cloud with the largest water droplets. It should be remembered that a large cloud will absorb a great deal of the radar pulse which may therefore not penetrate all of the way through the storm. This can give a false impression that there are no Cb cells beyond the cell immediately ahead of the aircraft.
In flight avoidance. In certain circumstances, navigating through a line of Cb cells may be the only option open to a pilot, either because his destination is beyond the line of cells or because he is unable to climb over them. In such circumstances, the aircraft may have to diverge from track by many, perhaps hundreds of miles, in order to find a gap in the wall of Cb clouds. The aircraft captain will need to judge the least hazardous track to follow through line of cells, something which will absorb the whole crew’s attention. The Weather Radar is invaluable in this situation.
If the Cb cell is situated over the destination aerodrome, then the pilot would be well advised to hold off or divert rather than attempt a landing.

Looking at the latest posts including radar tracks and rates of descent it seems to me highly probable that the aircraft was in a spin shortly following the stall at 37,000 ft. It’s also reasonable that the spin continued until the aircraft as in more dense air somewhere below 20,000 ft.

QZ8501 had perhaps consumed sufficient fuel that there was an opportunity, during the pitch up, climb and stall, to cause an increase in the moment of inertia when the aircraft stalled and experienced post stall gyration.

Under these conditions, it’s possible that the spin was ‘inverted’ rather than ‘erect.’ I doubt that either pilot was experienced in A320 recoveries from Inverted Spins. I’d also question whether there was sufficient control authority available to make that recovery. … ph

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

An abnormal climb rate, possible pre-existing damage to the jet, and questions about ‘upset’ training and pilot standards are all emerging as considerations in the AirAsia disaster that killed 162 people last month when an A320 fell or dived out of control into the Java Sea.

These are all matters openly raised or implicit in the disclosures made by Indonesian investigators overnight.

The hard facts are that the jet at one brief stage was climbing at a rate of 1800 metres a minute soon after the pilots began increasing its cruising altitude from 32,00o feet to 38,000 feet in crowded airspace to avoid bad weather.

This as Transport Minister Ignasius Jonan said, was ‘abnormal.’

“In the final minutes, the plane climbed at a speed which was beyond normal” he said.

This was a rate of climb more associated with fighter jets than airliners the minister said.

“The plane suddenly went up at a speed above the normal limit that it was able to climb to. Then it stalled.”

However an additional factor that has now been raised by the investigators twice in the past day include possible pre-existing mechanical issues or damage with the A320 that was operating the 28 December flight between Surabaya and Singapore.

Those references included comments that unidentified mechanical noises were heard in the cockpit voice recording, which continues to be analysed alongside information found on the flight data recorder for clues as to the sequence of events that destroyed the flight.

Investigator Nurcahyo Utomo was quoted as saying the crash team was looking at possible plane damage and human factors.

The reference to human factors is shorthand for how the pilots were prepared by AirAsia, which is responsible for their competency and actions, for an ‘upset’ or ‘loss of control’ situation.

It touches on an issue that has been of growing concern to Airbus, Boeing, and the major air safety regulators in recent years because of evidence that some airlines have placed too much faith in automation, or the use of autopilot functions and other control system ‘protections’, leaving pilots unprepared for an ‘upset’ or unable to understand what the jet they are flying is doing when something beyond routine happens during a flight.

Without prejudice to AirAsia, this is a very serious and acknowledged problem in the airline industry, and has been discussed at number of official levels as matters that requires urgent review and where appropriate, regulatory changes.

The Indonesian investigators expect to issue a preliminary report into the accident next week. In the Java Sea, difficulties with lifting equipment and stormy conditions and high waves are frustrating efforts to raise the main section of the crashed jet’s cabin from its location at a depth of around 30 metres.

There is uncertainty as to how may of the victims have been recovered pending forensic indentification, but until yesterday the number was given as 52 or 53 of the 162 people who were onboard flight 8501.

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

The best textbooks and simulators may not adequately prepare a pilot for the gut reaction of suddenly becoming inverted after an upset like a wake vortex encounter, and neither does traditional pilot training. Guidance on the topic—unload the wing and roll to the nearest horizon—makes sense on paper or visually, but cannot account for or predict the psycho-physiological response in the moment of crisis, what scientists call the pilot’s naturalistic decision-making process.

Face-to-face with this type of extreme unusual attitude for the first time, an untrained pilot is likely to either pull back on the control column in a “split-S” high-G dive toward the ground or do nothing, both of which could lead to an unrecoverable loss of control in-flight (LOCI) within 5 sec., says Karl Schlimm, director of flight operations at Aviation Performance Solutions (APS). Schlimm gave Aviation Week a greatly compressed version of APS’s upset prevention and recovery training (UPRT) course in an Extra 300L at the company’s Mesa, Ariz., headquarters on April 11. APS is one of 137 companies offering UPRT in the U.S., according to the International Aerobatic Club (IAC), but it is the largest UPRT provider in the world, training approximately 1,000 pilots per year, mostly for business aviation clients. Airline clients are a emerging part of that business, with the company set to provide UPRT to instructors from South African Airways in August.

South African Airways (SAA) is the first of an increasing number of airlines that are evaluating APS and its closest competitor, Mojave, Calif.-based Flight Research, for help with meeting new global mandates to provide pilots with UPRT. At present, the two companies form a duopoly for in-aircraft UPRT training for the airline sector, although more competitors are likely to begin offering the services if demand grows.

Harold lee

Thanks for the updated info. In a easy to read format. It seemed to take a back seat to other breaking news.

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

Precisely the reason I posted it, painfully seems to be the case for some time now.

I feel this is among the most significant info for me.

And i am happy reading your article. However want to commentary on some normal issues, The web site style is wonderful,
the articles is really great : D. Excellent job, cheers

Henry Baillie-Hamilton

There has been some further information learnt recently from one of NASA,s weather saterlites about super intense tropical up drafts, data can be seen by searching the following below
.

‘Hot towers,’ the natural engine of hurricanes, explained – NASA
Stormwatch7 1,518 views
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